Glennon it’s lovely, to see you, but the big thing. Everybody’S, talking about you is in relation to adele the singer and adele saying your book untamed changed her life, so let’s get it clear right from the start. This is not a diet book, oh my god, no sort of the opposite, no it’s about women. Finally, doing eating being exactly who they want to be now, you say women now hold on. Are you going to exclude me from this conversation? Do men have any interest in this at all? Is there any benefit from men because men can be suppressed? Men can speak, be prevented from doing what they want to do in life as well amen. I am so glad that you said that men are absolutely conditioned and tamed women are told not to be bossy, not to be loud, not to be leaders. Men are told not to be vulnerable, not to be merciful not to be so. This book is for everybody that wants to get rid of um what the world told them to be, so they can be who they were meant to be adele. Dallas said, i never knew that i’m solely responsible for my own joy happiness and freedom. Our own liberation liberates those around us didn’t know that so it’s you’re saying that you have to be responsible for yourself and be happy before the people around. You can accept you for who you are well and also, i think, we’re so afraid to live as we as we really are, because especially women are told that that’s selfish right, but what we find is the truer we live to ourselves.

The more permission we give to those in our family to our children, to our friends for them to live as fully as they can so it’s. Really this beautiful ripple of freedom that um that happens when we return to ourselves. You say that, but this ripple of freedom and doing what you want, what it does i’m trying to search for the right word: it pees off people. It can affect everyone around you, can’t yeah, because it affects your neighbors, your partner, your parents, your kids, everybody has an opinion about what you want to do about what i want to do about what ruth wants to do. They sure do don’t they, especially when we’re breaking codependent patterns right, where we’ve all decided in a family or in a community that we’re all going to hide ourselves. So at first things get a little uncomfortable. But what i have found is this: we tend not to tell the truth, because we’ve learned not to rock the boat and that’s a price to pay but there’s a price to pay for not being who we are right and that’s that we slowly die. So we have to count that cost too, and we have to practice bringing our full selves to our lives and then just allow the chips to fall, and usually the change that happens is change. That was supposed to happen that allows everybody to be more free. I mean you had a massive change in your life um, you were married, you had married, a man had children, and then you were at a conference.

I think addressing a conference and you fell in love. Tell us that story. Yes, so i was at a um writer’s conference uh, just launching my last memoir that was being touted as an epic marriage. Redemption story that was really about recovering from infidelity. In my first marriage and a woman walked into the room and ruth and eamon, i can’t believe that this is part of my story because sometimes it’s embarrassing about how cheesy it is. But i looked at her and every fiber of my being said there. She is um, and i just i don’t know a part of me – just rose up that had been buried for so long and i had to decide whether i was gon na abandon myself or abandon everyone’s expectations of me, because i had to really you know: disappoint A lot of people in order to avoid disappointing myself. How do you find the strength to do that because there might be people watching this saying i know i’m, not living my true life. I know that there’s something in here that i need to let out, but if i do that, what will my parents think what will the children think of me whatever it is? What will my friends think will i lose friends and they’re frightened yeah? I mean i think i found that actually, when you start living in integrity, which means that you’re matching your outer life with your inner self right, it just means integrated your outer self and your inner self are integrated.

When you start to do that, you do lose people here and there and those are always the right people to lose right and you attract more people into your life that were never there before and those are the right people to bring so yeah. You have to be, i guess i would call it uh brave enough to let um let some people go. Let new people come, but what you do do is you grant freedom to everybody else in your circle to also live free if they want that freedom? A lot of people want to be blind to that. I think the word i would be afraid of would be judgment or condemnation. I mean bear in mind and and people like us we’re not only talking about family and neighbors and that sort of thing we’re talking about viewers, everybody when you’re in the public eye. Everybody has their expectation off you. So if i shaved my head and came into this program tomorrow and a lot of people would express their displeasure at what i have chosen to do, for instance yeah, but then eamon, so many people would be so thrilled that you shaved your head. Also right. I, for one would be delighted. I hope that i can get you tomorrow. So how did you? How did you cope glennan with the fall? You know, so you met abby who’s. Now now your wife um, but you know that moment where you said i’ve got to be true to myself.

I fall in love with this woman. I’Ve now got to tell my husband, i have to tell my children, my family, you know how did you deal with that and find the strength to do it? I was scared to death and i almost decided not to do it um, not because of the world, but because of my children, because i was, you know, trained to believe that a good mother does not cause pain for her children. But one day i was watching my little girl get ready and i thought i am staying in this marriage for her. But would i want this marriage for her and if i would not want this marriage for my little girl, then why am i modeling bad love and calling that good mothering? But does she understand that whatever age she is, i don’t know how old she is tan. I don’t know how old she is, but does she understand that you i mean you’re, putting adult values on to a child? I suppose no, not at all. I was redefining what motherhood is in that what i decided was that a good mother is not a martyr. A good mother is a model that my daughter will recreate in her life. The patterns that i show her yeah and do you think, glennon that women are more inclined to be the martyrs to say you know, i do everything. Children totally disagree. I’M. Just asking the question: i think if you define that no, i think in life i wasn’t asking you no, you aren’t, but that’s.

What i’m saying you are in life, a people pleaser. You will be these people, but within your relationship then i think women are conditioned to do that, but not to not to within the marriage, no right um. I do think that i have found that in every area in work in marriage in parenthood, everywhere, women are given the ideal that the epitome of womanhood is to disappear. That’S. Why? The the greatest compliment we can give women is she’s, so selfless, okay, which is so obnoxious that the that our goal would be to not have a self, but in parenthood. For sure. I think that we need to realize that if we show our kids that love means to disappear that’s what they will eventually do. We need to show them that real love means to fully emerge. My my point is that i don’t think responsibility is the preserve of of women. No, i didn’t say that i just said. I think that women are a bit more conditioned because well, i don’t agree. I don’t agree. I think there are a lot of good men who do the right thing who hold their families together, um and and who just aren’t responsible and maybe, as a result of that um they don’t. Do they don’t do this thing start pleasing themselves. So i think i know you two see it from a different way, but i think is your advice to everyone. Male or female start pleasing yourself.

Stop stop pleasing sorry and start living yeah, and i think that what i see is that both of you are absolutely right. I think that um everybody is trained to please and women tend to please the world tells us that we can please by being accommodating and pleasant right and martyrs and the men men are taught to please by being invulnerable and providers and conquerors, and the truth is That we are all just fully human and we all have the same needs and needs and characteristics are not gendered. And so what it means is that we all need to bring our full self to the table and communicate with each other about what we really need. As human beings not as genders, thank you for coming to the table with us today. Glenn – and i wish we had an hour to talk to you untamed – is what you are and what you want other people to be. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Indeed, thank you ruth and eamon. This was wonderful. Thank you, so much lovely to meet. You i’ve got a friend, a friend, who’s text me my friend maurice, who just said i’m reading this book right now and it’s.